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Are we cursed to repeat the history of collapse?
What has caused societal collapse throughout human history? Are the same conditions present today?
This week, we talk to author Luke Kemp in a thought-provoking conversation about one of the best books of the year, Goliath’s Curse: The History and Future of Societal Collapse. In this conversation, Kemp challenges conventional narratives by redefining civilization as a series of dominance hierarchies, or “Goliaths,” that have historically led to societal downfall. He argues that these structures, characterized by inequality and concentrated power, have been precursors to collapse throughout history. And that’s a big problem today.
In this episode, we discuss how today’s unique conditions of global interconnectedness, technological complexity, and unprecedented environmental destruction make us more vulnerable than ever. He calls this the “Death Star Syndrome,” where our highly interconnected world, much like the fictional Death Star, appears robust but is simultaneous susceptible to catastrophic failure from a single point of weakness. This vulnerability is exacerbated by modern existential threats like climate change, nuclear weapons, and AI, which are often viewed in isolation but are all results of global systems that promote inequality and resource extraction. So what do we do about it?
We explore Kemp’s recommendations including the potential of “deep democracy,” collective action, elimination of existential threats, and emphasizing that empowering diverse groups with good information and resources that can lead to better decision-making and a more equitable future.
One of the many reasons I was so compelled by this conversation was the recurring theme of the dangers posed by allowing power to be held by so few people and how that has allowed so much domination today.
Luke Kemp is a research affiliate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk at the University of Cambridge. He has lectured in the fields of economics and human geography, and has advised the World Health Organization, the Australian Parliament, the UN Convention on Biological Diversity, and many other institutions. His research has been covered by media outlets such as The New York Times, the BBC, and The New Yorker.
Editor’s Note: This week, we published our 328th episode of The Climate Pod, the show we started six years ago to explore a wide variety of in-depth climate and environmental topics. We’re back after a hiatus earlier this year and asking for your support to keep this podcast and newsletter going. Recently, we launched a paid option that supports this work. Please consider becoming a paid member to get exclusive content and member benefits. It will allow us to put out more great conversations and do it more consistently.
